[00:00:00] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Hi, I am Andrew. Welcome to the Work Unraveled podcast. In each episode, we break down a piece of the workplace puzzle, providing practical insights, fresh perspectives, and actionable solutions to help you navigate the ever-changing world of work. 

[00:00:15] **Scott:** And I'm Scott, whether you are a leader, a professional, or simply curious about what makes organizations tick, this show offers strategies to think smarter, work better, and lead boldly join us as we turn workplace complexity into clarity.

One episode at a time.

[00:00:32] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Emotional intelligence is one of those phrases that people throw around now without actually perhaps fully understanding what it means. And people tend to throw emotional intelligence as an accusation to somebody else.

And really what we're talking about in this episode is understanding what emotional intelligence is, or sometimes it's referred to as ei. Emotional intelligence, if I slip into that, um, jargon there, ei.

So emotional intelligence is this idea that if you can develop greater or, or more improved emotional intelligence, it can actually transform how you as an individual in your workplace, in your job, but also how leaders and teams interact.

And really what we're gonna try and do on this episode is, is encourage people to think about emotional intelligence, but also to build their own emotional intelligence.

[00:01:17] **Scott:** Yeah, and it's, it's not just about managing feelings as well. It's about thinking about our values and aligning them and from a productivity perspective, thinking about our daily practices. actually it's proven that when we integrate. Strong, effective emotional intelligence into our workflows. We

[00:01:34] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:01:34] **Scott:** good habits that actually lead to better performance and frankly, wellbeing, which is obviously good for everybody.

[00:01:41] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah, I completely agree. So I think what we should do is perhaps start by defining what is emotional intelligence, what you mean by it. And, and as we said, it's one of those phrases that's get thrown around. So I, if, if we think about what emotional intelligence is, it's, it's recognizing and understanding your emotions and managing those emotions, but perhaps.

Maybe as importantly, or maybe more importantly, sometimes it's understanding other people's emotional reactions. So as I say, we need to be clear that when we're talking about emotional intelligence, it's that perception of them. It's the noticing of them. It's the sort of, oh, that's interesting. I've got this feeling.

What, what? What am, what am I feeling? And I think for most of us. Certainly in busy workplaces we're just tense, you know, things are going on and we need to stop and, and sort of say what, what, what's happening to me, but also what's happening to others. And there's a very famous, uh, psychologist called Daniel Goldman, who's very, um, important, very key in this area.

And he defines emotional intelligence. I think there's like five. Areas that he talks about. Uh, one of them is self-awareness, which I've just mentioned is this awareness of your own emotions. It's that self-regulation. So you are feeling something, but you don't let that feeling or that emotion take over.

So you, you are always making the most positive, productive choice. He also talks about motivation, so using emotion intelligence to maintain your motivation and to notice those energy levels. But also importantly as, as we're talking about other people's emotions, is a sense of empathy. Um, and social skills.

So if you are emotionally intelligent, you can notice your own emotions, you can reflect upon them, you can make the most productive choice about your own emotions, but you are conscious and aware of other people's emotions and you can sort of have that empathy. So yeah, psychologically, um, intelligence is such an important skill and the evidence suggests that those.

People with high levels of emotional intelligence. You know, it, it underpins uh, communication. It underpins effective leadership, um, conflict resolution, resilience and so on. So it's a really important skill, but we need to recognize and understand what it actually means. 

[00:03:55] **Scott:** It's also linked to the difference between your thinking and your actions as well, because certainly if you are a procrastinator, for example, being able to be in touch with your emotions there and trying to say, actually, what's going on here? Usually procrastination is linked to a fear. So it might be a fear of taking action. It may be a fear of being judged harshly. If you submit some work that's not gonna well received, it might be risky. So actually being able to be in touch with that thinking and actually take that step back and look at what's going on inside you and your thought

[00:04:30] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:04:31] **Scott:** can really unlock better productivity. So I think that's why it's important to think it's about this kind of state of being, how you show up, how you think about work, how you reflect on how you're feeling, your mood at that point in time, depending on time of day, energy levels, all that stuff is linked.

[00:04:47] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah, completely. And, and really what we're offering people listening to this is that if you can start thinking about emotion intelligence, you are going to be more productive. You're gonna be more creative, uh, you're going to reduce that burnout. And we've talked about burnout in, in a previous episode.

Emotional intelligence is self-awareness, but, but in the real time. The evidence is that people who keep journals, you know, there's lots of mental health benefits for keeping a journal. So you could get to the end of the day, and it's probably a very healthy thing to sort of get to the end of the day, maybe before you go to bed and sort of reflect on your emotions.

During the day, you know, what, what, what did I find difficult? When was I stressed? When was I upset? When did I feel happy? So that's, that's fine, but what we are talking about here in the workplace is emotional intelligence in, in, in the moment. Um, and self-awareness really is the anchor for all of those emotional intelligence, um, superpowers, if you like.

And what you're gonna try and do is notice the patterns that you have. Over a week. So if you, if you're not used to this concept, what I'd recommend is, okay, let me just notice how I feel about certain types of meetings. Let me just notice how I feel about certain type of tasks. You know, if I'm having to do a presentation or , if I'm leading a team or I'm working on a particular type of project what's going on inside me. So the first step to be better with emotional intelligence is that self-awareness in the moment. You, you, we are not, we're not gonna talk about just yet about how you then deal with that. But the first step is noticing is how do you feel in the moment at, at different times of the day, different activities.

[00:06:23] **Scott:** And I think that's, that can be difficult for some people because depending on, you know, if you're quite emotionally charged about something, you know, we, I'm sure many people have heard of the Chimp paradox.

What can happen is your amygdala

[00:06:34] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** I.

[00:06:35] **Scott:** gets triggered and you are in fight or flight mode. So it's very hard to reflect, rationally in those situations. And I've certainly been a person I know when I. Something will trigger you. It might be an email from somebody that can just, ah, this is so frustrating.

And then you're tempted to respond angrily straight away. And actually if you give it time, you can then take some time to reflect on it. But also sometimes I've certainly found it, I take some time to realize if things have been a bit unfair, for example. So. I'll like accept something and then I dunno, an hour later I'll be thinking about it and go, uh, wait a minute.

That, that's not right actually, I'm not sure I agree with that. And certainly I think over time I've developed the ability to catch that quicker. But it's just something to reflect on as well. For the listeners, I. Actually, are you able to get to a place where you can start to pick up these things earlier and not have those emotional reactions?

Take a pause and as Andrew said, take that journaling so you can then look back and see those patterns and start to develop. What we're gonna cover next is about how you can actually deal with these things.

[00:07:40] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** What we're gonna try and do then with emotional intelligence is once we've got that awareness, is try and put a, a pause. In between the, what's in in psychology is the stimulus and response.

Now, anybody who who has any sort of psychology background knows about behaviorism. So I'm not talking about human beings like pigeons in boxes, but you have a stimulus which is outside, and you have a response. And so emotion intelligence is about taking a pause. And in the workplace, what does that look like?

Well, it could literally be just trying to let the shoulders drop. It might be taking a. And, uh, an inhale. Um, do you know the, what's called box breathing? Have you come across that concept of box breathing?

Essentially where you breathe into a count of four, you hold for a count of four and you breathe out for a count of four.

And if that's too difficult to do, essentially it's about making sure that the exhale is longer than the inhale. If you spent a week or so doing that, a self-awareness thing, just trying now to put a pause in before you then take any sort of action and that that's really what that self-awareness is.

And then you're starting to move into, um, what's called self-regulation. And you're not, you're not acting on autopilot. You're not just snapping at somebody. You're not just reaching for the, the packet of biscuits. You're not just, I dunno, getting self distracted by jumping into your emails. It's, it's making a choice.

It's making a more productive choice. That's what we mean by self-regulation.

[00:09:08] **Scott:** And I think it's also powerful to link that to trying to short circuit some of the things that may be a habit for you. So as soon as you start your working day, what do most people do? They open Outlook or they open their email program and then they get lost for the next few hours down the email Rabbit hole their phone is there next to them pinging. Social media notifications, trying to get your attention. So actually trying to short circuit that and create new rituals can help your brain focus on being emotionally intelligent and saying, actually, I'm gonna turn my phone off. I'm not gonna go into email for the first half an hour. And we've talked about this before. Actually. This is about. Claiming back your time. I think as you said, autopilot, a lot of people are in autopilot at work. I think in terms of just, well, this is what I do. I've got my routine, not actually taking that step back to think, is this the best thing for me to be doing? And also, am I in control of what I'm doing at work or other people in control of what I'm doing? And. I'm a big advocate for saying to people. Take your time back, take some control. Block out time in your diary for you block out thinking time, block out stuff that helps you be effective in your job.

[00:10:19] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:10:19] **Scott:** And this is, again, linked to having that mindset and having. The self-awareness to not be on that autopilot.

So yeah, I think those short circuits, just simple things you can do. Block out your time, schedule things, turn off notifications, just try and regain that control and get that head space. I.

[00:10:39] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Completely agree. And I think that if, if you've started this self-awareness journey, there may be simple things you could do quite quickly. You know, making sure that the phone isn't within arms reach, bring the phone away in the drawer. Those distractions when you're feeling stressed and you notice that stress and it's, it is about that noticing.

If you are not aware of what you'd normally do, you'll just go into autopilot. You'll, you'll, as I say, get the phone, you'll start scrolling on Instagram or at work, you might avoid the thing you should be doing. We, we often talk about the deep work stuff because of that immediate, normal response, you, you tend to think, well, I don't wanna do that work.

Or maybe you don't consciously say that to yourself, but you think I need to be busy. So you jump into your inbox. And that's, that's what we're talking about. Emotional intelligence is noticing that resistance is noticing that fear is noticing that tension. So yeah, you're absolutely right. What habits can I put in place that when these emotions come up, which they will, you can't turn off emotions.

So when we're talk about emotional intelligence, we're not saying about not having emotions, we're just talking about using them intelligently. We're talking about using them in a, in a smart way, working with your emotions.

One technique for anybody that's interested in developing their emotional intelligence is, is noticing the feeling and giving it a label.

And the evidence suggests that if you can label an emotion, you distance yourself from it. You don't get, if you like, wrapped up in it, it takes some practice. It's something that you, you know, forgive yourself if you don't do this every single time, but you, you notice that emotion in yourself. You notice the tense shoulders, the, the, the shallow breathing, the, the, you know, the, the sweating, the, the pulse rate is going and sort of label yourself and go, well that's interesting.

I. I think I'm feeling stressed, or I think I'm feeling anxious, or I think I'm feeling excited. There can be positive emotions as well, so labeling the emotion can act actually help with that, uh, processing and making them more productive. Choice.

[00:12:32] **Scott:** I think one of the things that we mentioned earlier that that is this kind of a term that does get thrown around. Certainly the one for me that is the one I've misused it or used it in the past commonly is around empathy or lack of empathy, and. I think it's really important for leaders and anybody in the workplace to be able to put themselves in someone else's shoes actually say, if there's a phrase I always try and use: "If I was them, if I was in their environment, in their position with what they know, with their knowledge, with their skills, with the pressures they're under from whatever they're dealing with, I would do exactly the same."

[00:13:10] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:13:11] **Scott:** It's very easy for us to, to judge from an outside perspective. We don't know what other people are going through. We don't walk in their shoes, it's very easy to say, "well, I wouldn't do that. I would be better. I would've done a better job". I think certainly from a leadership perspective, but just good coworking perspective is deep empathy, pausing, saying Actually, I can see what they're dealing with. I would probably do exactly the same. Is a really powerful skill

[00:13:39] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** I love that, Scott, because I think if you, if, if we're honest with ourselves, what we tend to do, and uh, this is something there's lots of literature on, this is. Our behavior that we are conscious of. We are aware of why we are acting a certain way. I'm aware that I had an argument with my partner this morning.

I'm aware that my teenage child didn't do his or her homework. I'm aware why I'm stressed and we will give ourself that excuse of why I'm feeling a certain way, but also why I, why I was perhaps irritable, why I snapped at somebody. But for other people, we blame their character. So we say he or she is a, as it were, a bad person.

He or she is an idiot or a fool or nasty or not nice. So what we do, and this is where you're talking about with emotional intelligence, and I just want to emphasize, I'm not talking about allowing people to bully you or allowing people to harass you and treat you badly, but with, certainly within the workplace, we tend to wag a finger at other people, we say she isn't very friendly, whereas in fact, that person has got the same challenges or possibly, probably even worse than you have that person you don't know that person's situation. Now, if you're the leader or the manager, clearly you should know. What's going on in your, in your team's life?

How, how can you sort of encourage people to open up? Do you think, were there any sort of approaches that you used as a, as a manager or a leader to get people to open up about their feelings?

[00:15:08] **Scott:** Well, certainly being vulnerable yourself and being open

[00:15:11] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

Your feelings can set the tone, certainly as a leader, that it's safe to have those conversations and that you are vulnerable too. I think, again, people ex, some people expect the leaders and bosses to be infallible, or

Mm-hmm.

Or the bosses themselves think that they need to project an image of, can take everything that's been thrown at me.

[00:15:30] **Scott:** I'm in, I'm in charge. I'm in complete control. I don't have any concerns. I'm not stressed out" And That's dangerous, I think, on a human level for that individual, but also it sends the wrong message to team members Actually being vulnerable, wearing your heart on your sleeve. You know, there's a, there's a line between oversharing.

I think

[00:15:49] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah,

[00:15:49] **Scott:** some of your employees may not want all that piled onto them,

[00:15:53] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** sure.

But actually 

[00:15:54] **Scott:** just being open and honest I think starts to build that, that culture again, that it's safe to be vulnerable. It's safe to have that emotional intelligence, to be aware of your own feelings and be able to share that and express that.

[00:16:06] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** I, I, I think that's really good. I think that there are simple things that if you, if you're having a meeting as a leader, as a manager, is starting off with some sort of personal story. You know, getting this sort of interaction off on a, on a lighthearted note perhaps, and, and talking about something that's happened to you this weekend.

Trying to build the rapport with your team members, getting to know them as people rather than just numbers. Many organizations, many people I work with, the bosses are distant.

They might just be in the same building, but they're distant. They keep themselves in their own office maybe, or they hardly ever talk to you unless they want something done. There's no human connection. So the, the good leaders, the good managers, they are conscious of their own emotions, but they, they want to show other people, and this is what we call, we talk about psychological safety.

That, yeah, I'm gonna show that I'm vulnerable, I'm gonna show that I make mistakes. I'm gonna show that I get stressed and upset as well. And that gives permission to other people to open up in, in, in, in the same way, as I say, we've gotta be really clear here. We're not talking about oversharing, we're not talking about over familiarity in the workplace, none of that.

But yeah, there's definitely something about that authenticity that in the end, we're all human. We all make mistakes, we all get stressed, we all get tired. And, and as a manager, if you can show that. You then can start to build that culture of safety and trust, and that helps people share how they're actually feeling.

Because if you don't, and you have the opposite culture where people are afraid to share or they are afraid to say what they're feeling like, that's when you get to those toxic workplaces and that's when you get into burnout that we've already covered in in a previous episode.

So I think it's time that we perhaps start offering some practical things that people can do, can start to consider to, to develop their emotional intelligence. And I've gone on several times in this episode talking about self-awareness and one way you can do that is.

Ideally in the morning, maybe over, over your cereal, you know, as you're having that coffee is just noticing how you're feeling before you start the day. If you can, you try and notice how you feel throughout the day. That's that, that awareness piece. But at least one time during the day, you, I would put this in your calendar actually.

I would actually put this as a sort of regular time slot. Some, some something in a diary or in a calendar, whatever, post-it note on your, on your desk. But just notice how you're feeling. For a few minutes and just that regular practice and it has to become a habit, is something that your, your brain will sort of get used to doing and then you'll be able to maintain that, that noticing, that awareness throughout the day.

So that, that's probably one of the simplest things to do, is just at some point in the day, getting to the habit of noticing that's a really important first step.

[00:18:51] **Scott:** Yeah, and I think it's also good to compliment that with, setting some intention for the day before you dive into your work and your tasks. Today I'm gonna stay focused. I'm not gonna be distracted. I. I'm gonna have an open mind to some of the challenges that I'm gonna be faced today.

I'm gonna see how other people are responding and take stock. You know, just maybe set some intentions out at the start of the day and then compliment that, of course, with the stuff that we talked around, around taking your time back. So some practical things like not going straight into your inbox, actually focusing on that deep work, as we've talked about before, trying to avoid those distractions and notifications.

But I think setting that. Mindful intent

[00:19:30] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Hmm.

[00:19:31] **Scott:** of the day can be quite helpful as

[00:19:32] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:19:33] **Scott:** at the end of the day, reflect back. If you're journaling saying, how did I do on that? What can I do better? So trying to get into that continual review process.

[00:19:40] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** brilliant.

The other thing you can do is get feedback from others. So let's say you've given a presentation or you are on a, a call, you could say to a colleague, somebody that you trust, somebody's gonna give you some sort of honest feedback and just say, you know, how did I come across in that meeting? And they might say, oh, you, you look, you looked fine to me. Or they might say, you seemed a bit tense.

So you can get feedback from other people on, on your emotions, because of course, as human beings, we're expressing our emotions through our facial expressions. Through our language, people can pick that emotion up. So yeah, self-awareness, but also input, input from other people as well can be really, really useful.

[00:20:14] **Scott:** Yeah, and I train teams with a fortnightly review cycle that I've mentioned before around generally around work. So what's going well, what's not going so well. What we're gonna do differently. We're got, we're gonna start doing, stop doing, but actually you can build into that as well, this kind of stuff.

So actually say, how was I as your manager this week? You know, did.

[00:20:33] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah.

[00:20:34] **Scott:** up when you needed me? Did you feel listened to? Did you feel understood? Is there anything I can do better? So actually build that in as part of that process as well can really help.

[00:20:45] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Excellent idea. Have a growth mindset around this and give yourself some sort of scale. I dunno, at the moment when I have a meeting, I'm, I'm sort of at a, a, a two. You know, I'm really stressed, I'm really anxious. Practice this.

Self emotion, self-regulation, and self-awareness. And then maybe after a period of a month or two, assess yourself again. And, and I would, I would suggest to you that you're gonna improve and you're gonna start to see that growth. You're gonna start to see that change. Take the small wins. So if there's a meeting where you normally get quite tense and you were less tense.

You still weren't completely relaxed. That's okay. You move forward you improved.

So for me, Scott, this is such an important area. It, as we started off at the beginning, this is something we throw around. We, we accuse other people of not being emotionally intelligent.

I cannot make somebody else more emotionally intelligent. I can have empathy for them, I can understand their situation, but I can't make them be more emotionally intelligent. So the emphasis and the, and the responsibility is on all of us. To be aware of how we feel about things, how we react to situations around us, especially in the workplace.

And then to take a moment, seconds even to just reflect on how you're feeling and then make the most productive choice based on those emotions. It's not about not having emotions, it's about using them productively and intelligently.

[00:22:07] **Scott:** Yeah, and as you said, linking that into how productive you are going to be or can be. So feeling, this isn't a good time for me to tackle this really difficult thing. I know as I've, because I've been recording it, that I. You know, I dunno. Tuesday mornings are really good because I've been to the gym the night before and I know I do my best work in the morning then. So actually again, blocking out that time then to say that is when I'm gonna do this really complex piece of work. And also just linking to things we've said about minimizing those distractions, giving yourself that headspace to be self-aware because I think self-awareness. Really can be a superpower in terms of just being effective as a human being, but in particular in the workplace as well.

[00:22:49] **Andrew Lloyd Gordon:** Yeah, absolutely. And, and to finish off then, you know, we'd hope that people listening to this, or if you're watching on YouTube, you found our discussion. Useful. Please subscribe. We'd love a review. We'd love that feedback that we keep on talking about. And if you'd like us to help you and your organization build that stronger emotional intelligence, whether it's emotional intelligence workshops or team assessments, or one-to-one coaching, tailored to your own needs, then we are here to support you.

Thank you for listening to the Work Unraveled podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe to the show so you don't miss the next one. 

[00:23:23] **Scott:** If you'd like Andrew or me to help you or your business, whether it is for team productivity, leadership, coaching, or communication skills, our website addresses are in the show notes.

Thanks, and until the next time.